The Apostle Edward

3/12/07: Matt Slick's Radio Show Debate

Matt Slick of saw the news release concerning Jesus' human bones not going to heaven and wanted to interview me.  Matt has a radio show broadcasting from Boise, Idaho and a ministry aimed at shooting down what he believes is heretical teachings.  This means, generally speaking, anything that is against Orthodox Trinitarian Christianity.  Visit to stream or download his podcast audio file dated March 12, 2007.  Alternatively, you can click here to download the 48.4 Megabyte mp3 audio file and play it locally.

I initially believed a lot of what Matt has listed at the site is solid information based upon his Orthodox Trinitarian views.  However, having spent an hour talking to Matt about his views, I do not recommend the Carm site except for Matt's interpretation of orthodoxy.  I am not even sure if all that Matt has listed on his Carm site is orthodox.  Especially since he condemns Catholicism, which I consider the epitome of orthodoxy from a theology point of view.  I believe Matt has his own criteria of what he believes constitutes orthodoxy.  I was set to talk with Matt again on March 19, 2007 [next Monday], but after my ministry reviewed Matt Slick's statements on his audio file we decided it would not be productive to continue any further radio discussion. 

The following Matt Slick teachings are documented on the above audio file.  Note: I do not know how long the file will be present on the site.  However, it will reside on this ministry site indefinitely for comparison purposes and to give Christians a taste of orthodox interpretations of simple Scripture.  I spent five years writing the Book of Edward: Christian Mythology with God.  It is inspired writing guided by the spirit of God.  You will find truth backed by simple Bible Scripture.  That is, unless you can no longer understand simple Bible Scripture like Matt.

Matt and other teachers of orthodox doctrine seem to be focused on the deity of Christ.  Yes, it is true that many verses suggest or even spell out the fact that Christ was divine.  People in the Bible even worshipped Jesus.  Thomas, according to Matt's interpretation, even called Jesus God.  And, he may have.  However, the real issue is not what others have written or done in the Bible, but what Christ has taught us.  Ergo, the real issue for Christians is whether they are obedient to Christ's teachings.

Matt Slick's Radio Statements


  1. Mormons, Jehovah Witnesses, and Catholics are not Christians.
  2. Matthew 7:21-23 does not apply to Christians today.
  3. Joel 2:32 means "to call on the name of Jesus."
  4. Paul used the New American Standard Bible.
  5. Jesus has a human body with bones like ours and flesh like ours in heaven.
  6. Jesus does not have blood in his human body because it was drained on the cross.
  7. God is a man who does not lie.  Or Numbers 23:19 should read, "God the Father is not a man that he should lie."  Also, "God the Father" is not a "son of man."
  8. The seven spirits of God testified to in Revelations 3:1 are irrelevant to the man made trinity doctrine, even though the Bible itemizes those seven spirits and the Holy Spirit is only just one of them. 1+1+7=3?  That is Matt's math.
  9. Jesus did not have a God as Jesus states clearly in John 20:17; or, the verse only pertains to the man Jesus, but not the deity part of Jesus.  Matt expounds on the hyperstatic union doctrine, which proclaims Jesus was always simultaneously both a man and God.
  10. It was God who died on the cross otherwise Christians would have no sacrifice.
  11. You should stay clear of Revelation because it is a highly symbolic book [implied].

All of these issues are dealt with in the Book of Edward and contrary to Matt Slick's assertions – Matthew 7:21-23 DOES APPLY to everyone named or called a Christian.

Matt uses the N.T. to interpret O.T. Scripture.  However, it is the O.T. that must be used to interpret the N.T.  That is why the Bereans searched Scripture [O.T.] to see if Paul was telling the truth.  You cannot understand the N.T. without first understanding the O.T.  If you view O.T. Scripture through the lens of N.T. Church doctrine, you do not understand God or his only human begotten son, Jesus Christ.  This is clearly the case with Matt Slick, who denies the God that Jesus Christ taught us to know.

Analysis of Matt Slick's Denial of the God Jesus Served

In the above audio, Matt Slick taught his radio audience that the Greek Septuagint translates the word "Lord" in Joel 2:32 into Kurios (Strong's Greek #2962).  Matt then stated that Joel 2:32 means anyone who calls on the name of "Jesus" would be saved.

However, the Greek word Kurios is not a word for Jesus.  It is defined in Strong's Greek #2962 as "supreme in authority i.e. (as noun) controller; by implication, Mr. (as a respectful title): — God, Lord, master, Sir." 

Note that the name "Jesus" does not appear in the Greek definition of Kurios.  Only the context of Scripture can bring Jesus' name into play.  So Matt concludes the context of Joel 2:32 refers to Jesus.

However, the Greek word for Jesus is Strong's #2424 — Iesous, pronounce ee-ay-sooce'.

Compare the word "LORD" in Joel 2:32 with the word "Lord" in Matthew 7:21-23 for an illustration of the difference.  Note the small caps use for LORD in Joel 2:32.  This is a protocol used throughout most bibles whenever the Jewish Tetragrammaton YHWH was found in Scripture.  YHWH refers to God Almighty and not to Jesus Christ.

A proper dividing of the Word, would have used Strong's Hebrew #3068 — Yhovah, pronounced yeh-ho-vaw'; from #1961; (the) self-Existent or Eternal; Jehovah, Jewish national name of God: —Jehovah, the Lord.

Matt's teaching error is two fold.  First, he uses a Greek translation to teach the O.T., when he should have used readily available Hebrew texts.  Second, Matt interprets O.T. Scripture through a man-made [Church] N.T. doctrinal lens that he believes in.  I.E. The O.T. couldn't possibly contradict N.T. Church doctrine?  This is an errant way to interpret God's Word.  It is a fact that God's Word is 98% exoteric and speaks for itself.  Having been translated by hundreds of translators, you no longer need a Hebrew or Greek education to understand Scripture.

You only need Hebrew or Greek if you want to alter Scripture.  If someone wants to change or alter the simple language of Scripture by referencing Hebrew or Greek, it is to your advantage to move on to a teacher with more common sense.  The Words of the Bible speak for themselves.

Matt Denies Jesus' God

In this case, the effect of Matt's teaching is to deny the God that Christ knew and served.  Joel 2:32 and numerous other verses cause a conflict with Matt's salvation message, which is false.  For a more thorough understanding of the issues talked about here, see the False Trinity Doctrine and False Salvation Doctrine chapters.  Matt Slick teaches both of these false doctrines and others that are written about on this site.

Matt rejects the God of Joel 2:32

"And it shall come to pass that whoever calls on the name of the LORD [Yahweh] shall be saved." Joel 2:32

Jesus identifies his God

Jesus said to her, "Do not cling to me, for I have not yet ascended to my Father; but go to my brethren and say to them, 'I am ascending to my Father and your Father, and to my God and your God.' " John 20:17

Jesus ascended to his God

You will find Jesus serving as our High Priest in the temple of his God [see Revelation].  Note Strong's Greek translation of the word "God" in John 20:17.  If Matt Slick taught Scripture correctly, God in this verse would translate into the God that Jesus himself served.  However, for Matt Slick, Jesus [God the son] is saying that he returns to [God the Father] in this verse.  The only problem is that Jesus does not teach such apostasy in the simple words of this Scripture.

The Greek translation for the word "God" in John 20:17 is Strong's #2316, which is the word — theos, the supreme Divinity; a magistrate; by Heb. Very: — X exceeding God; god [-ly, ward].

Here you have a resurrected Jesus, God's perfect HUMAN sacrifice and someone we all can now emulate until our own human death –TELLING US – that he is ascending to his God, which Jesus claims is also our God.

Listen carefully.  Is it inspiring to you to think that God came down and died on a cross?  Isn't that suicide?  If it isn't, it's a magic trick as no one kills God Almighty.  Well, what about the human Jesus who suffered on the cross painfully.  Does his human death on the cross teach us to endure even unto our own deaths?  Yes, it does.  Which is more inspiring to you.  Only a human could be a perfect sacrifice and that is why Hebrews teaches us that Jesus had to be made "exactly like us" other humans.  Heb 2:17-18

"Therefore, in all things [Jesus] had to be made like his [human] brethren, that [Jesus] might be a merciful and faithful High Priest in things pertaining to God, to make propitiation for the sins of the people.  For in that he himself has suffered, being tempted, [Jesus] is able to aid those who are tempted." Heb 2:17-18

Is it important to understand the God Jesus served?

"It is a righteous thing with God to repay with tribulation those who trouble you, and to give you who are troubled rest with us when the Lord Jesus is revealed from heaven with his mighty angels, in flaming fire taking vengeance on those who do not know God, and on those who do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ.

These shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of his power, when he comes, in that Day, to be glorified in his saints and to be admired among all those who believe, because our testimony among you was believed.  2 Thess 1:6-10

Jesus takes vengeance on those who do not know God!!!

Do you worship and serve Jesus or his God?  Jesus taught us who to worship and serve in Matthew 4:10. Are you in a Matthew 4:10 church? Who do you worship and serve?

Then Jesus said to him, "Away with you, Satan! For it is written, 'You shall worship the Lord your God, and Him only you shall serve.' " Matthew 4:10 (NKJV)

Note: In Matthew 4:10, the word "Lord" is also translated into the Greek word Kurios.  Is Jesus telling Satan it is written that he [Satan] should only worship and serve Jesus? If you cannot take these instructions as the simple teachings of Jesus that they are, you do not know Jesus or his God.  In 2007, men parse words to twist the meaning of sentences, but in biblical times the language was not so sophisticated and evil.

Who do you worship and serve?
Is it who Jesus taught you to worship and serve?

Matt deleted some important information in addition to coming up with wild doctrines.  He has been steeped so long in orthodoxy that he can no longer see God's simple truth expounded in Scripture.  The Bible is written so that even six graders can understand it.  If you listen to Matt, you might think you need an education in Hebrew and Greek.

I'm going to leave it up to my readers as to who reasoned better in the radio debate.

Start reading the Book of Edward today and find out which Christians Jesus rejects in Matthew 7:21-23.  And, you better believe Jesus is talking to Christians.  Matt, do you claim the 77 million Anglicans worldwide are also not Christians?  By your logic you'd have to.  Even though it is only the Episcopal wing of the Anglicans that truly fits those who are rejected by Christ in Matthew 7:21-23.  Even in this example though, it is only part of the Episcopal Church.  Revelations makes it clear that God has some of HIS people in every church.  I suggest you read the Book of Edward for your own benefit.  If nothing else, it will give you something more to write about on your orthodox web site.

Facts edited out in audio, but mentioned on the Radio

  1. 20 Million Christians have now left the Church according Barna Research Group
  2. They have not left God, but are forming small cells throughout the world.
  3. Three friends and I left 12 years ago and formed a N.T. home Church.
  4. Apostle Ministry is part of the Revolution to educate Christians.
  5. For four years, God deprogrammed orthodoxy out of us with His Word.
  6. I then spent five years writing the Book of Edward with God's Spirit at my side.

Click here to download a PDF version of this posting.

Click here to download my pre-radio discussion notes.

Click here to read Matt Slick's email response to my blog posting.

Updated 3/16/07

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